In the Hall of the Mountain Kings
Probably the longest and weirdest chapter in the entire series. (The climactic chapter of I Dare is a similar length, but much less eldritch.) The first time I read it, I came out feeling like I wasn’t sure I hadn’t dreamed parts of it.
The biology lesson is … distinctly unpleasant.
I’ve never felt sure of what the zaliata are. It’s made pretty clear that they’re not human, but if not, what is there?
“In the Hall of the Mountain King” is the title of a famous piece of music by Edvard Grieg, originally written as incidental music for Henrik Ibsen’s play Peer Gynt. The relevant bit of the play tells how Peer Gynt visited the subterranean court of the Mountain King and formed a connection with one of the King’s daughters, not entirely to the satisfaction of anybody involved. I don’t think we’re supposed to try to read the parallels too closely, but the Mountain King is a good counterpart for the Iloheen, not only because he’s supernatural and inhuman, but because his most famous moment has him proclaiming a philosophy of supreme selfishness that regards everyone and everything else as inconsequential.
The zaliata seem to be closer to what the enemy wants to be: not a physical being, but a being of energy only? (Not that the Iloheen seem to value anything except themselves, really.) I’m not clear what the Iloheen are, either.
After your reminder, I had to go listen to “In the Hall of the Mountain King” again. Those musicians are working so hard!
I’ve always understood the Iloheen to be the same beings that Jela calls the sheriekas, since they are embarked on the same project and are in charge of the dramliz. (“Iloheen” seems to mean “Lord”, since Iloheen-bailel is said to mean “Lord of Chance”.) That would make them once-were-humans.
Yes, I assume that the Iloheen are sheriekas and once-were-humans. But what are they now?
Good question. What are the Iloheen now? Are they corporeal at all?
As for the dramliza, they were created to serve the Iloheen, formed from zaliatas, of which Rool was a particularly strong-willed member. As H in W indicates, the glossary says the zaliata are “energy creatures” — whatever that means.
I didn’t much like this chapter. It was far too confusing, obscure, and unpleasant. It felt largely unnecessary, too. TMI, I guess. Could do without the dominant / submissive garbage, and could do without the sadistic scenes.
The prologue is here, I assume, to give us an understanding of just who/what our new allies are, and what their motivations/experiences may be. What the Iloheen are? Evil. Supreme and supremely-selfish beings who regard all other forms of life as inferior and worthy only of exploitation or dissolution: definitely evil. Witness the recitation of “the very first lesson”: “to annihilate those who stand against the Iloheen”, and the sadistic enjoyment of their power expressed as the pain of those they subjugate. That we don’t enjoy such examples is a good thing, I think. Sadly, our history shows that mankind throws up such creatures only too frequently. Luckily we haven’t yet reached the supreme-being skill level yet or we’d have them for real.
I am re-reading this book, and maybe it’s because of Bechimo, Bunter, Jeeves, Tinsori Light, etc. but now I wonder if the zaliata (which became the dramliz?) are artificial intelligences, a kind of computer-driven energy. The ghost that came out of the computer. The prologue refers to “make it self-aware” and “download”
I always assumed this prologue depicted Rool and Gray Lady. Not sure now.
Oh. I see it is indeed about Rool, now that I’ve finished the prologue. Yes. I had forgotten, and the first time I read this chapter, I was completely lost
Now, with Admiral Bunter and Bechimo in mind, I have found more references that remind me of AI socialization (communications module, motor skills module, download, self-aware)
He truly slept now, as well he should — zaliata, tumzaliat, or mere biologic.”
I also think this might explain the origins of “life mates” who survive death by living inside the other, beginning with Gray Lady (the biologic) and Rool the zaliata (and now Daav & Aellianna) :
“Impossible though she knew it to be, yet it seemed clear that she had bound a zaliata to her poor vessel….”
” no zaliata had ever been bound to a humble biologic vessel.”
“Once bound to the vessel, there was no release for the tumzaliat, save destruction. Perhaps a zaliata, with its greater abilities, might withstand the destruction of its vessel?” (Just as a life-mate can withstand the destruction of its “vessel”– which could be the other life mate.
“The zaliata dancing, mixing their energies” (life mate bridge Miri & Val Con)
“the dramliza unit.” I missed that connection, years ago. Too overwhelmed. (I started this series with Crystal Soldier, so none of this made any sense)
That’s an interesting theory about the zaliata. I’ll have to think on it more before I can tell how much I agree with it. My initial reaction is that I don’t think I ever got the impression that the zaliata were artificial. If they are, the artificers presumably weren’t the Iloheen, or they’d be more biddable; but of course that doesn’t mean they couldn’t have been created by somebody else and then stolen/captured by the Iloheen.
I agree that the story of Rool and the Lady is prefiguring the story of Daav and Aelliana and showing how Aelliana’s survival is possible.
Incidentally, an interesting thing I’ve noticed about “dramliza”… In modern times, the term “dramliza” is used for a person who is a wizard: Anthora is a dramliza, Ren Zel is a dramliza, Anthora and Ren Zel are two dramliz. But among the early dramliz in this book, “dramliza” is the term for the unit formed by the lifemating of two people: Rool Tiazan and his lady, together, constitute a single dramliza.
That is interesting. I didnt think about that. But maybe makes sense, cuz to start with, Rool zaliata had no body — just ether, energy.
The prologue indicates that the Iloheen “Shadow” was displeased, demanding to know if she used a zaliata that wasn’t “bred in captivity” — a wild zaliata? So, I see that the zaliata are not AI (in fact, with all the hints of “green” and “ether” I think the wild zaliata (Rool, before capture) was similar to Tree in essence.
Yet I do think there is something going on that sounds like computers, AI creation techniques, and/or cloning techniques.
@ Finding the Prologue confusing, obscure, and unpleasant.
I totally agree. But after having read all other novels and this prologue the fourth or fifth time now, I found much more sense and info that wasn’t covert anywhere else, beside some back-ground on Rool and his Lady.
It is the only time we get the experience of someone meeting a sheriekas. Also by their teaching we get some of their values and believes or doctrinarian for their minions.
In Crystal Soldier Rool said that the pairing of him with his Lady was a miscalculation. The Prologue explains this. It also explains why Rool and his Lady as well as other dramliza started out serving the Iloheen and why some of them freed themselves from it.
@ Info on the Iloheen:
The Iloheen are also called the Lords of Unmaking. Approaching Iloheen emit an ill-shaped sound and casts a long shadow before them .The shadow seems to be seen in the surrounding and felt in the perception. On the mental plain the Iloheen appear to be this shadow. As soon as the Iloheen has arrived, the air grows chill and moister freezes, ice gathers on surfaces. This coldness is also perceived mentally. (Compare this to the coldness the Sheriekas made healing units have when offering the choice for perfection – Tinsory light and Spiral Dancer.)
From its minions Sheriekas expect total submission, bowing deeply, and head touching the knee or the floor and waiting without movement until commanded or left. The Iloheen prefer mindspeach. They also insist on being treated as omnipotent and all-knowing, questioning them is risky as it might infer disrespect and lead to punishment. They are described as noisy and arrogant, having a cold voice and terrible laughter. The Iloheen disdain emotion and base biology. They use emotion to control and manipulate. But they themselves still feel some emotion– dark satisfaction at weakness in their tools. They also like to dominate and to keep their minions uncomfortable.
Conclusion: the Iloheen seem to deprive their surrounding of energy and light (growing cold and casting/appearing as a shadow) and/or they prefer to cast themselves in darkness, so nobody really looks upon them. Also: ”a state of no energy is impossible” … “to the Iloheen all things are possible”
• Either the Iloheen or their machines use or need that energy
• The Iloheen hide – they can’t be or don’t want to be seen.
• The Iloheen create and annihilate creation – taking god-like power for themselves.
Note:
But for somethings they use tools – like annihilating star systems and living creatures. I wonder why they don’t do it themselves. Maybe they can’t.
• If everyone treats them as all-knowing they might get no hint of errors until too late and they might get mislead by telling them what they wish to hear
• By following orders to the letter exactly instead of understanding them their servants won’t take care of details they didn’t mention
The only information about their number is that it was not limitless. Generally they are spoken of in plural, but Rool Tiazen and his Lady only met one at a time, never more than one. There is no explanation given for this. To deal with minions 1 Iloheen seems to be enough.
• Iloheen can’t stand each other and therefor keep their distance
• The presence of more than one Iloheen might damage fragile lives or their surroundings (although it seems hard to imagine that they care enough not to damage anybody)
@ a state of no energy
Our physics teach us that e = m * c2
So all energy may also be perceived as matter and matter as energy. But the Iloheen seem to vanish howl star-systems without energy or matter traces detectable – as if they had never been. That seems like so much wastefulness. Although it is in accord with what they say – that their goal is a Universe without life – I find it hard to believe that they don’t somehow collect that energy, consuming it or hoarding it for later use. It makes more sense for them to be lying.
Also their need to free the Universe from those that stand against them implies that they don’t have all the power they claim to, that they have some weakness, some reason to feel threatened, to fear.
This prologue almost convinced me to drop the whole series. It was so unpleasant in many ways. The second time through, though, I was able to skip a lot that I didn’t want to re-experience, but still understand more than I had at first.
Commenters above have covered many of the points I would have, and clarified many things for me. I am only going to point out that I was on the verge of being offended by the use of the words Iloheen and Edonai (obvious allusions to the Hebrew Elohim and Adonai) to address the Ultimate Evil. Or maybe I truly was offended, and chose to move on in spite of the offense because I had already read the Agent of Change sequence and Crystal Soldier and enjoyed them very much.
The training of dominants, demonstrating extreme cruelty as a strategy in a reward and punishment scenario, reminded me of what we learn later about how the Lyre Institute trains its agents. Perhaps Lyre and the DOI are sheriekas remnants. I believe we will find out…hopefully sooner than later.
One last comment, about the color green: As a reader, I had assumed that Jela sensed “green” related to the Tree simply because green would be the logical color to connect with a vegetable/tree/plant. But perhaps green is actually the color of strength of “will,” as shown by Rool.
Ed8r,
the verge of being offended by the use of the words Iloheen and Edonai (obvious allusions to the Hebrew Elohim and Adonai) to address the Ultimate Evil.
I always felt a little niggling in my brain about those words, but didn’t make the connection to Hebrew that you’ve pointed out. I don’t have a command of Hebrew. Do they mean Lord or God?
So I wonder, was it intentional? If so, why? Why would the authors deliberately do that? I really hope it’s not just to score cheap points off religion. Yawn.
I have thought for some time that the Lyre is using OLD TECH. So is the Department. Stuff originally built by the Shereika. I wouldn’t be surprised to learn that the face behind Lyre IS the face behind The Department
I hadn’t made that connection before either.
I don’t think it’s a case of the authors scoring points off religion; that doesn’t seem to me like something they’d do. Something I unfortunately could believe of them is that they borrowed exotic-to-them words to give the story a mythical flavour, without giving due thought to the real people for whom those words mean something; they’ve done that sort of thing a few other places in the series.
I’ve always figured that in-story, “Iloheen” (which the story says means something like “Lord of Creation”) and “Edonai” were titles that the sheriekas had awarded to themselves, and were a sign of their self-conceit and hubris. That could be what the authors were aiming for, with the etymology indicating that the sheriekas are not merely conceited but outright blasphemous, seeing themselves and presenting themselves to their servants as gods.
OH, very good, Paul! Well reasoned! Just the sort of thing a tin pot dictator would do — the Shereika, not the authors ?
Skip, in Hebrew the word Elohim is a plural word form used for the one true God. Adonai is a plural form of address, meaning something like “My Lords.” Although their exact meaning is unknown, both of these words are thought to be plural references to the concept of “majesty.” So, the authors have used their words in exactly this way: Iloheen in the third person and Edonai in direct address from the dominant to the sheriekas who challenges her.
No, I do not think that the authors were intentionally and deliberately causing offense, or “religion baiting” or trying to score “cheap points.” And I know they borrow exotic-sounding words from the RW to add flavor to their stories. Nevertheless, in the midst of reading, I found this choice, this connection, this suggestion to be offensive to me. YMMV
On the other hand, most writers are not concerned with offense to tradition, and SciFi has always been a medium for presenting RW concepts and ideas in a totally different light. They wouldn’t be the first authors to play around with the concept of God; they are just the first ones in my experience who have almost casually thrown an allusion this blatantly cutting into the middle of what has been light Space Opera adventure. Of course, as Paul wrote in the OP, this whole chapter is the weirdest chapter in the entire series.
All that said leads me to Paul’s rationale, which goes a long way toward reconciling me to the use of this allusion, these words. If I think of it along the lines of Paul’s explanation…even though the story itself does nothing to suggest this was the author’s intent…I can accept the idea of the sheriekas, in their unmitigated pride and arrogance, taking for themselves these titles, which properly belong only to the Creator God. In fact, within Christian thinking, it would mirror *exactly* what the ancient Enemy is said to do.
So, thank you Paul, for taking my offense and using sober reasoning to bring it full circle. I am content.
[btw, you both must be on the opposite side of the globe from me.]
Thanks for the lesson! Very interesting. If I’d known all of that while reading, I’d have probably felt taken aback, and disappointed. As it was, that chapter was quite challenging enough.
I’m in California, but I do keep erratic hours at times.
Well, that’s a lot closer to my backyard than I thought!
Also, the time stamps on my comments are not correct. It says 6:46 am, but it’s really 3:46 pm
All the time stamps are in my local time; I’m a long way away from California.
Ed8r, I’m glad I was able to help.
Yeah, my time stamps are way off too…by about 15 hours!
So, coming back to this long, weird chapter, I am not even going to bother to read it. It was too unpleasant for me in oh, so many ways.